Well, that looks much more usable than what Myo actually released, back in the day.
I wonder if the legacy hardware is compatible…
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Putting sensors on my body that live-stream everything I do to Facebook is pretty much at the bottom of my todo list. But we’ll see, opinions can change with possibilities. Perhaps in 5 years we all run around with AR glasses, the Facebooks, Googles and Apples of this world seem to be in the final stages of preparation for that next step. And in 10 years these might come with bidirectional brain interfaces
Even Orwell wouldn’t have thought that people wear always on tracking and recording capable smartphones with them all the time - totally willingly, paying quite a lot to get the best ones.
All these things are highly fascinating and frightening at the same time. Let’s see…
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I imagine you’d take the hand sensors off before doing anything with your fingers which you’d rather keep private.
…like typing passwords.
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I liked the last sentence from the movie Anon: " It’s not that I have something to hide. I have nothing I want you to see"
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Ya MI mu software smokes geco and geco is still available but it would have to be ported. But the rokoko seems controlled voltage messages so they would work too control synths
. The one thing I didn’t think of as far as the MI must go is working with animation and that thought makes them worth it because and here I’m a show a snap shot or 10 lol.
The point is these gloves are expensive for a reason and its because they can do Ajay the rokoko gloves do I think, and control midi as well
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Gentlemen and ladies if any are following I apologize for my absence, had to put my dog down suddenly and it kind of tore me up. However I have been thinking while retreating from my sorrow and I think that if one were inclined to create a new controller they will have to do it the old fashioned way......brainstorming.
This seemed fairly straightforward in the beginning, but there are many different branches that this new generation of instruments are going down and each one has its advantages and it's limitations. Certainly the gloves are great for fazzly live performances and modulation, but for composition? Maybe once they are programmed for ones equipment but we shall see as I am buying a pair god only knows why other than I am seeking something that I am not getting with my current set-up.
Pretty much left with the continuum as far as mpe controllers goes, well roli seaboard. The linnstrument has one flaw that keeps on biting me and that is the larger the surface on mpe the better! The linnstrument is great but it gets to be a real tedious routine getting the sounds i want out of it. I usually use it for basically actual melody and harmony work while using the morph for the more insane stuff.
Morph is absolutely fabulous except a lot of glitches in operation, tends to be difficult to get a clean sound and well really the glitches are the major part other than the fact that the damned thing just isn't very ergonomic as far as comfy use goes - too limited really for pro level work
however when you use the two together one mpe will modulate the other so right there we have an interesting idea nobody else has incorporated
now there are a few others i have tried but bottom line is other than the continuum and roli ive tried all and they are all basically falling short of what i need
So let's discuss some brain storming folks
what pray tell would everybody like to have in this hypothetical super instrument? Where have the ones youve been using been falling short? Probably just list your primary equipment and its shortfall
linnstrument - another flat grid based instrument that feels uncomfortable to play and very difficult to get mpe out of in situations where one is excited as the grids are a tad small for mpe
morph - fabulous but … too many glitches, too limited for real professional use and not ergonomic
zen drum - great for making beats - not polyphonic and hurts your hands like all hell
leap motion - great for modulations and getting wild with effects live, limited use as an instrument
no more support
Mi-Mu’s - more to follow
i will come back later and express my needs - i am picking up a 3d printer soon i believe to start learning how to use one so i will be back in a couple days -
once everybody has their equipment and shortfalls listed start contemplating possible solutions - no matter how crazy the next phase will be throw out any and all ideas i dont care if its brain surgery to instal the instrument in your head if its an idea for this phase it is valid - we’ll weed out the less likely stuff after that but you never know sometimes the craziest shit turns out to be the hit so wouldnt want to miss out just by having a closed mind
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are you kidding? id sooner die than subject myself to the social media war 24/7 and all its bs. i dont let any of the brainwashing medias in my house no cable, no facebook - nothing from hollywood. i will keep it that way lol - i think it should be considered child abuse to allow children unsupervised access to the net, forget the molestors the world governments are flicking triggers all over in their brains and it has fucked this youngest generations minds all to hell i am all for boycotting hollywood and facebook myself
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Yeah, a healthy balance between an unreflected “all in” dopamine hunt and a fullstop “all out” retreat sounds like a viable goal - still a lot of buttons to press in the old brain
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I’ve come to the conclusion that the idea of ONE expressive controller/instrument that does everything is a bit of a folly… and one thats kind of been a bit oversold.
e.g.
the Eigenharp’s are great because of they are really dynamic, quick, precise - yet I also love the Soundplane, which is at exactly the opposite end.
but nothing can be both, because the materials/technology that give us one aspect, are counter to the other.
and there are many dimensions to this…
size… the continuum size is perfect for a studio/stage, but if you want to go to the park - then the Striso would be a great choice.
budgets… again continuum has everything, but its outside of many musicians budgets… so a Joue might be for them.
sound engine… some want to use with a computer, others dont…
do you want breath or foot controls?
in your examples you mention the linnstrument and the leap motion/mi-mu… but really they have completely different purposes
all the instruments you mention (and others) have been designed with certain goals, or target audiences in mind.
of course… thats not to say there arent imperfections/bugs and things that could be improved with all the instruments you mention…or that the ideas could not be evolved and expanded on…
just Im not sure you can have one ‘super’ instrument…
so I guess, if I were designing my own instrument I would not go about this from ‘flaws’ of existing instruments, rather answering a few questions…
what properties are important to me?
- size, weight?
- musical range?
- continuous/descrete?
- what kind of feel… fast/dynamic? slow/evolving?
- standalone (synths ) or just controller?
- if standalone - what kind of synthesis?
- primary role - studio? mobile/park/bus? stage?
- budget/cost?
… which of the above are the highest priority?
for me theres no right answer to these… any choices I made on the above, others would very likely ‘disagree’ with. in fact, I could design 3 instruments, with different combinations of the above and be happy with them all…
of course, the final thing is… the practical side… can I build it?
some technologies are just going to be prohibitive/impossible to use.
also there are some off the shelf components that make building something not ‘perfect’ but fun and enjoyable very easily (e.g. Bela Trill, or some capactive tech)
so for me (again that personal choice aspect) , I’d prefer to start on building something that I know I can build, that I can finish, rather than sit in my ‘sketch book of ideas’ forever, and never get beyond my dreams… (something I all too often do 
)
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btw… no critcism intended…
actually, the opposite, its partly frustration in myself.
I’ve actually got a bunch of trills and various encoders, pots and micro-controllers all sitting here, and have been for a while… since I keep messing with the ‘design’, failing to make a decision on an enclosure and layout.
I really wish I’d built it, decided it could be improved … torn it apart, rebuilt it… rinse and repeat.
rather than try to perfect it before building it.
this thread is a bit inspirational, really I need to order a couple more trill ( * ) and just get cracking!
( * ) the main issue I have is the designs I come up with using what I have always fall a bit short when I lay things out … so I kept trying new layouts, and its not working
what I really need to do, is decice on they layout I actually want… then go order some more trills to achieve it
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@thetechnobear, you have at least a good track record on getting things done, even if those things that surface might only be the tip of an iceberg of ideas underneath!
The advise with aiming for the doable instead of reaching for the stars sounds good and worthy to consider…
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I cannot but agree with you on the primary points you bring up. Although really the eigenharp would have met most of my performance needs, being an explorer I would still most likely explore the other ones - impossible to say as the eigenharp seems to be down for the count. I find the idea of one primary instrument viable, however that does make one wonder about better modular instrumentation.
Seems like the cat is out of the bag for most the tech involved at this point. I am sure the patent protects a few proprietary tech tricks, but from what I gather most of them are based on arduino platform. It's on the list of things to look into more in depth.
The cost of developing a product can get pretty steep even without having to go through R&D, So that places another limitation - needs to be able to utilize currently existing systems. I am unsure of the motion techs precise level of usefulness - however I can tell you that when I start mixing and mastering I am setting up that leap motion as a controller because it's sensitivity when tracking specially multiple parameters is just way more fluid than what you can get with sliders or an x-y.
Ive always perceived music as being multi-dimensional - most are just now starting to grasp the concept that it not only travels across time but space as well, with more to learn about it. So basically the new renaissance will be significantly focused on that new dimension, the motion allows a person to interact with the sound in a multi-dimensional aspect that nothing else can capture - as far as modulation and automation go they are phenomenal beyond belief.
From what I can tell the tech is great for ttriggering loops as well, although trying to use something like that to control an entire production seems far fetched, and if you want to actually play for your audience then the gloves and leap motion do have some capacity to play them, but very very limited and virtual reality instruments that I fiddled with are ridiculously hard to play with any kind of accuracy
Last factor that I find interesting is with MPE Ive already pretty much migrated to this new style of making music. I use only the linnstrument generally when I want a clear melody, or to tie the cacophony to some type of chord progression or arpeggio so that the mind is able to attach the sounds heard to something comfortingly familiar so it only freaks about 90% of the people that hear it out not a full 100%. point being that I do believe the tech is available to create a hybrid between motion, polyphonic expression and the old standby analog instruments
Motion = not just gyro's but video tracking to increase accuracy and expand on functionality,
MPE = the sensor pads that are being used for mpe instruments has a vast potential for versatility
You could pretty much pick and choose how to arrange it, the difficulty and cost i do not
know yet, but you can totally draw your own pads for the morph so......... the major
drawbacks are just the same ones that one finds with other such instruments, much harder \. to get a clean sound out of - this is also harder the larger the surface area of your strike pad
is so a large strike pad will be much much more difficult than say the linnstrument which is
on the other side of the spectrum in that it is more difficult to get the MPE properties going
into where there be monsters than it is with the ones with a larger surface. I spect that is the
greater challenge for those ising the rolli too because the keys are spaced wide enough that
having every twitch of your fingers produce an effect on the sound can be really problematic
I still havent tried breath but i suspect motion trumps it for most instances just because the control
you get with the motion tech simply makes it so yuo dont want to go back to linear control. I am however just one person and still determined to try it, maybe in conjunction with motion so that ethe two work together.
I am going to have to contemplate that for a minute and see what that brings to mind...........
meanwhile..............
So what can you build with what is available? I am totally game for let's go frankenstein because ultimately what I am looking at here is I started playing with the idea of getting into electronic music a year ago (thanks to tims wonderful endlesss app. That same little app is of course going to be copied and eventually there will be others that make it that easy for people to make some fabulous music,) and I am already looking at the limitations of the current vehicles for exploration. little early in the game as I have yet to turn my equipment on and have it work the same two times in a row, but I am forward looking. Thus the arduino platform and what can and can't be done by the average joe has great appeal because I will probably bounce off the boundaries sooner rather than later. There is of course much much much to learn, but ultimately it's the instrument not the software that places the limitations ..................thus i already know i need to learn the tech part every bit as much as the theory part if i wish to step into somewhere no man has gone before :)
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some interesting ideas… but honestly, I cannot read your text the way you are formatting it.
the ‘reason’ your text is unreadable, is you are indenting lines… this creates a blockquote, which means the text is not wrapping correctly. also, some more spacing might help readability too
perhaps you could edit it ?
Im sure it would encourage more engagement.
from the general gist that I got whilst scanning it.
I think the difference between something like the Linnstrument and (say) Leap Motion/MiMu Gloves is precision, scale of movements and ‘quantity’.
Sure, I could imagine a virtual keyboard played by the MiMu, but to work you also need VR and also haptic feedback… alot of tech, to get marginal benefits over something like a Linnstrument.
this is why alot of the VR music environments while interesting are not that usable at the moment.
(I do think haptic feedback is a technology that will help improve this space in many spheres)
Where the MiMu works well is as performance, where movements are large, and so are visible to the audience - which is pretty much why they were created… not really for ‘general use’.
that said things like Rings, MiMu and Leap Motion can also work nicely to augment playing surfaces.
as for video motion control , this is still pretty limited in precision and is really dependent on environmental factors, again not a general solution - rather something that works well in some areas. I dont think thats going to change - partly because its easier to capture motion at source, rather than try to ‘see’ it.
(but for sure there are some scenarios where that may not be practical)
again… lots of scenarios, lots of different approachs… that work well in different situations, and for different artists.
none of this is reallly new, artists having been playing in this kind of area for decades, using all sorts of sensors… the Ondes Martenot and Theremin were commercial,
but even ‘diy’ there have been light sensors, motion sensors around for a very long time…
I remember as a kid having an electronics kit with circuits to control sound, pitch/amplitude, via LDRs , magnets etc.
Then we have the likes of Buclha and Suzanne Ciani who were playing with quadraphonic sounds, and moving it around space…
really the difference I see, is the technology is now more accessible. and is also more precise… and of course computing power makes it easier to manipulate.
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Changing the subject slightly…I’d like to see a new electronic instrument with a bow controller. Bows are a very expressive way to control notes with a unique set of variables - speed, pressure, angle, contact point.
KMI worked on something called the K-Bow but I’m not sure if this was ever released.
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-bow/
There are MIDI violins, of course, but I’m not aware of any other MIDI controller that adopts a bow as the principal way to shape notes. I’m curious about possible approaches. The O-Bow looked very promising but the project seems to have stalled.
http://www.tech.dmu.ac.uk/~dylan/z/dylan/project/obow/
(I’m imagining something that’s mounted within the instrument body in a flexible way rather than having a separate bow; something where the note selection and the types of bow control are completely different from a violin.)
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The O-Bow looked really promising! Have been in contact with the developer back then but have not heard back from him the last time I wrote, so I guess priorities might have changed. Would still be nice to see something like that at some point!
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Re: MiMu, there’s an article on MiMu/Glover in the current Sound On Sound. You can find it in the free online replica version on P134.
I was interested to see that Glover interfaces with a free iPad app called Gliss. I downloaded the free trial of Glover to try it out, haven’t got round to it yet.
@NothanUmber I’m annoyed with Dylan Menzies, he comes up with this smashing idea and then just sits on it.
I recently enlisted the help of another MIDI DIYer for a one-off Airpiano clone I’m building. He’s developed an open-source MIDI hurdy-gurdy called the DigiGurdy, and also came up with a bowing system to use with a MIDI Nyckelharpa based on similar lines.
Apparently it calculates movement from laser-engraved notches, but I haven’t got the full story yet.
(On the subject of bowing, I’ve also been trying to figure out how they did the “air”-bowing in this Artiphon video, which is far from obvious, though I’m not really into air bowing anyway.)
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That Nyckelharpa looks adventurous
Is this a digital instrument like an Eigenharp or Linnstrument or an electronic one like an e-guitar (=electronically amplified accoustic instrument)?
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I think someone started with the Nyckelharpa kit from NerdyGurdy and adapted it into a set of tactile switches with a Teensy to create a digital version.
Speaking of electronically adapted instruments, I just came across the Aum guitar, also featured in the free SOS linked above. (It’s a fretless instrument designed to be played with an eBow.)
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I think that’s a feature of their mobile app (which I’ve more or less tried to avoid using).
It’s described in the manual, and doesn’t mention a third party app requirement…
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The manual says that bowing is “available for Fretless, Grid, and Pad modes when connected to the Artiphon app”. It works when you plug the Artiphon into an iPhone, but I can’t see how you can connect to the app wirelessly. I’m wondering if the iPhone is wirelessly connecting to some other iOS device which is plugged into the Artiphon.
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