I would love this it it could adress the uneveness of the pressure! but I guess the problem is deeper.
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Hello @thetechnobear
We’ve released the firmware version 1.3 that was bringing the best software and signal processing and filtering we could achieve on this actual hardware. This is why we have not deployed another firmware since then.
As stated we will keep on improving it on the UX/UI side but when coming to the linearity and minimum threshold (that is now accessible in the settings) the FSR sensor design that we used in the first version obviously had its limit. They were already discussed in some previous posts here and other forums where users explains (maybe better than us?) the trade off we had to chose between size/linearity/position/sensitivity :
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=554130&start=225
But frankly the reaction we had for the most part is that it has been quite an improvement for most of our clients into their music workflow, for musicians who were not necessarily familiar with MPE before.
So we are still communicating as much as we can around the capabilities of MPE.
But the Versatility and Customizability of ERAE were from the beginning one of the main selling point and most of our communications angles since day one.
To describe a bit more the improvement about the sensor :
Our new FSR design sensor now has a much higher density of sensors per cm/sq allowing better linearity (Z-Pressure) and a new patented circuit design with analog position measurement (for a better XY precision) and better stability (new design avoiding ghost notes).
The mechanical design of our device has also been rethought to avoid as much production issues as we can for the futur batches. It is an even “simpler” design now where the skin layer can be removed by the user and is not wrapped around the board but is being screwed to it directly to the mount.
For the future software updates we are now working on the portability of both system together.
So yes there will be a V2.0 for both systems.
The compatibility release will be given along as we release them, but as stated above you can be confident that MIDI 2.0 and new element such as pixel drawer will definitely be included.
As a communication note, since everything we say here is public we do not want to reveal our roadmap in full details since it is subject to change depending on production, sprints, emergency, debugs, issues and unexpected problems…
And any change or delay in our statements seems to be leading to frustration and anger from some users…
In full transparency 40% of our Support tickets were due to delays into delivery from our factory to our warehouse and that obviously greatly impacted our final customers. It was probably a mistake on our end to announce optimistic ETAs and we will not repeat the same mistakes with this new production batches.
Coming to the UX/UI limitation, again the same software (ERAE Lab) will be used for both systems so at least in the beginning there will be no difference between MKI and MKII beside the obvious connectivity, LCD screen and Looper function.
when marketing the mk1 (and mk2 I believe), you mentioned that the ET was built so that the surface could be replaced (e.g. in case of damage?).
I don’t think we really marketed that unless you can find a one of our communication around this somewhere ?
But we can definitely think of a repair program for the MKI as we still have some spare silicone and unit in stock for those issues. WE will answer this on a case to case basis to our support@embodme.com
Beside that, all the standard MPE features that any MPE controller include (Linnstrument, Roli, Joué, Sensel) are pretty much there, unless we are missing some important ones?
The interviews we gave at NAMM pretty much cover all of these questions :
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RripStEavqY&ab_channel=TrueCuckoo
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMSw3USDAVY&ab_channel=EuropeanMotionPictureAssociation
The “PR spin” criticism we can read here and there is honestly hard to understand as we don’t have any marketing budget beside a couple hundred euros for FB ads /month, and some Discount codes for a couple of Youtubers. So all the reactions you see on our Instagram or Youtube channels are genuine feedback from our user, amongst them are some professional touring musicians that have purchased their product and toured with it for more than 2 years now.
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Can you be more precise into what bug you are referring here ?
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I don’t really want to get into a blow by blow account of history… as its not productive for anyone
but some clarifications
not marketing, but as I said, it indicates possible to replace. hence why I asked about this as an option.
a general point is, you featured the ET mk1 as an isomorphic MPE controller frequently in your marketing etc… and for this you need consistency.
I think many of us, don’t have so much an issue with the pressure required for play…
(sure lighter is better, but it is what it is)
rather, many here (including myself) have had problems with the consistency of pressure reporting over the surface… ie. different parts of the surface have a harder or lighter touch.
this makes playing expressively on the surface somewhat unpredictable.
(it also appears to make velocity on non-mpe highly unpredictable)
its clear that this varies between units, and it seems to me that the issue is one of calibration.
Ive some experience in this area, and to me it appears its not enough to simply store the threshold of noise, and then use an offset from this… but rather, if your sensors are not responding the same across the entire surface then you need to be to somehow calibrate a response rate over the surface - to take into account these irregularities.
of course, I understand the limits of your FSR design… but its not reasonable to expect end-users/buyers to know about the limitations of your design. esp as they lack the details.
as I said, Im not so fussed about the amount of pressure… but I think an expectation of consistency across the surface is reasonable.
ofc, Im sure a v2 is better, thats true of all products… we all learn from our mistakes/experience etc.
also as for expectations an marketing… well I can simply point you to your own kickstarter page…
which talks about its sensitivity, and using ‘1000+ sensors’, I think implies accurate 
as I said, previously… I do think the ET is good for certain use-cases,
but an MPE surface was touted as (an important) one of these, and its really not lived up to expectations there.
Im sure the mk2 will be better, but still the questions remain about how there were limited firmware (and slow) updates for the mk1 …
so the support is the question, or rather where some of us may be hesitant to consider the mk2, in case ‘history repeats’.
But I do wish Embodme every success the ET is a great product.
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For me the thing is that the Erae II seems much closer to what the Erae I was already promised to be. Something that, as we learn now, was never possible from the start with the used sensor technology. And now we should buy it, essentially again, with the same promises and the additional note that this time the sensors should actually allow what is said.
That said, it is good that you have a seemingly improved V2 now. Am looking forward to try it out at some exhibition or store!
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yep, Ive some confidence the v2 will be closer to what we hoped/expected for v1.
and as Ive eurorack, the cv outputs are really useful.
(though still hate the knob on top… what were they thinking!)
however, there is no way, Id pre-order without testing the surface first.
its a real shame that the kickstarter is scheduled before superbooth.
this means I will not get an opportunity, for a hands-on, and so not be able to participate.
and frankly, I’ll be unlikely to purchase, without the kickstarter ‘incentive’.
this is what I was attempting to communicate above, that past experiences will impact future actions.
coming here and saying, that the issue with v1 was not their fault because of FSR design, or they were working on other secret products so could not communicate, does not really change that for v1 owners 
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Solved with version 1.4: better late than never! Thanks…
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I sold my unit 6 months ago.
Embodme did good in replacing a very defective 1st unit/batch, but the second one still had its issues. Drove me crazy.
The near silent communication ensuing, coupled with defects that seemed inherently tied to the hardware, the number of reasonable people on here experiencing similar problems, made me understand it wasn’t for me.
I don’t really regret doing so (money went towards my Osmose), but I’m also not happy I felt compelled to; when I see Jarre use like 10 of them live… Makes me think maybe I should have kept it.
The MK2 is tempting, I will just seat back and wait this time before considering its worth.
This is a good forum, with very constructive criticisms, technobear taking his time once again to assist and make pertinent remarks, and everyone else on here. Hopefully all this will lead to the necessary improvements for the hardware (s) and the company down the road.
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Just a reminder that according to the e-mail from Embodme, ERAE 2 is going to be Live Thursday February 29th at 6pm (Paris time UTC+1; 12pm EST; 9am PST) on Kickstarter:
- super early bird price 575 EUR,
- early bird price 669 EUR.
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Yeah sad (or annoyed ) Super Early Birds were sold in less than 2 mn. Just got access to Early Birds. Bit mad about this
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Hello.
I just found out about this brand and I am very intrigued by the possibilities this device could offer.
I am a guitarist and drummer who discovered geoshred on the iPad and now owns a linnstrument and a dedicated finger drumming controller.
I really love the linnstrument, because it opened so many doors for me. It is very close to an actual instrument and it is worthwhile to practice. But, compared to an iPad, the actuation force needed to press a key is a downside - because there is no actual key in that regard, so no physical feedback for when I can expect a midi note to be triggered. Coming from a jazz/fusion/funk and improvisation background, I am looking for a device that can be played like a real instrument and that gives me raw and honest feedback when I make a mistake, but ideally never makes a mistake itself.
This controller seems to offer everything I need in a single device. The configurable playing surface also lets me realize a bunch of ideas as a „real“ acoustic finger drummer that a standard pad controller is never intended for, which is exciting.
I wonder however if this really is the controller to end all other controllers, or if this sounds too good to be true. Has anybody had the chance to play it and compare it to a linnstrument in terms of consistency? Especially the new version.
I‘d be also interested to hear from the developer himself, who undoubtedly has a linnstrument for comparison laying around… would you honestly say the two devices are on par? This might sound over the top but when I close my eyes and just play, I do not want to be distracted by things that feel like they are not under my control.
I think it would be fine if not, because then the two devices would not occupy the same niche and instead serve different roles, as the linnstrument certainly has its drawbacks in terms of configurabiliy (although it is extremely good for what the technology is IMO).
If the erae 2 is comparable to the reliability of a linnstrument however, it would surpass it in many ways and I‘d consider jumping on the kickstarter campaign. I have a superbooth ticket, but the campaign ends in a few days… so I‘d be very thankful for any insights.
Cheers and all the best!
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During the time I was working on the LinnStrument Darker Mod, I had a lengthy conversation with Roger about sensors. He said that the ERAE Touch uses a force-sensing multi-touch trackpad, which has a fast scan rate at the cost of sensor sensitivity and density compared to its size. The LinnStrument, on the other hand, uses force-sensing resistors arranged in a matrix grid array with a fast scan rate and high sensitivity at the cost of sensor density compared to its size. There are also spacers separating the rows, among other design choices.
It has various hardware modifications and multiple custom firmware. There are more that are not included in these lists, but I do not have time to crawl through the KVR Audio Forums and GitHub repositories to include them.
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ok, so…
I have an Erae Touch from day #1 , and have backed an Erae 2…
like many here played quite a few mpe controllers etc, whilst I don’t own a linnstrument - Ive played them a few times
@keymanpal has and uses both regularly, so could give the best feedback…
observation #1 :
tech specs and claims often don’t bare out in reality, with mpe controllers playability… as you are so concerned about feel, and also how you like to play.
observation #2:
related to #1 , I doubt anyone here has tried the ET 2 yet as its not released - perhaps some will get a chance at superbooth this year?
so claims of improvements over ET 1 have to be taken with a pinch of salt, Im sure its improved but we have no idea of how much by.
linnstrument vs erae touch
lets assume erae touch mk1 , but then bare in mind mk2 will likely be better !
also I will focus on main points, ofc, there are other features etc in both, and ofc, this is my opinion only.
Linnstrument
first and foremost its a playing surface for melodies… and it excels in this, they really fine tuned the feel/experience for playing. it feels accurate, and sensitive - its focus is on playing.
its ‘downside’ is a relatively short Y axis (compared to some other surfaces)
Erae Touch (mk1)
is a bit of a ‘jack of all trades’ - and can be used on the fly in all sorts of different ways.
it can be midi sliders/control, drum pads , used to play melodies.
it can be customised to how you want to use it…
you want to use if as a drum pad with 8 pads - no problem
want it to be just one huge x/y/z pad - no problem.
you can also use its API to write custom ‘applications’ for it, which is fun !
however, the mk1 sensitivity and precision for melody playing is not on the same level as the linnstrument (or some other controller)
(bare in mind, many of us were disappointed with the ET mk1 feel, because we didnt have this info upfront , so had higher expectations - if you know this, it may be less of an issue?)
note: it’d be a bit harsh to say "jack of all trades, master of none… since I think its only really the ‘melody’ side that I think it does not ‘master’.
SO… which to get?
in the end, frankly, they are apple n’ oranges… due to the above.
if you want a melodic playing surface (at this point) I’d say Linnstrument every day…
if you want something that can do many things, for a variety of use-cases, can be customised… or want to use as a drum pad, and only a bit of melody (and dont mind the heavier touch) - then the Erae Touch mk1 is a good option
… but its a tough one, as for many they want that ‘light feel’.
ofc, the ET mk2 complicates matters… Im sure the feel will be much improved.
but, how much? we don’t know,
if I were to bet, Id say it still won’t be as good as the Linnstrument, however, I suspect it will be much more ‘acceptable’ - simply because Embody know this was a limitation of the mk1
so , yeah, with kickstarter its a bit of gamble…
I went for it, as I do like the ET mk1, and the ET mk2 adds cv output, which is a huge bonus for me.
honestly, whilst, I do think the feel will be better, Im not sure Id have made the gamble based on that, its a bit too unknown.
from your background, It certainly sounds as if the Linnstrument is the ‘safe bet’.
(whereas, understandably, the ET has the appeal of diversity of use… but will you use it?)
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btw: to throw a curve ball in the mix …with even more unknowns…
Loom (see other topic) + Erae Touch could be a very interesting combo.
the Loom looks like its focus in on playability, so might give the feel… then combined with the ET flexibility.
ofc, I partly joking here… as like the ET 2 , we have no idea how good the Loom will be either, they could both be stellar, or both be lemons or one of each 
I guess put another way, many of us have ended up with multiple controllers, as they all offer something a bit different, and a focus in one area, tends to me a compromise somewhere else.
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My thoughts too! But, I just signed up for the Kickstarter for the Loom. My thinking if that it could prove to be a kind of ET in a smaller form factor with more expressive options (besides the pressure axis), and you can assign CC values as well.
I know I’m taking a chance but it just seems so compelling (besides not having a pressure component which I’m used to with my Seaboard) Would be great if the sensitivity is good. Their physical modeling synth seems respected and full of features so I’m hoping the quality of the Loom will follow!
Loom seems great overall, but 2 things missing for me to make it complete and those are pressure and CV/Gate out. I know you can do the more skin on the surface pressure but that was never completely natural feeling for me.
We’ll see!
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personally, I think Loom will be more like a Linnstrument in smaller form factor.
(but this is being highly reductive for both Loom and Linnstrument)
sure, it has some alternative playing modes… but so do many controllers incl. Linnstrument.
but the ET the changeable usage is a major focus of the ET,
(and as you can see from my ‘critical views’ above, I think, sometimes, to its detriment)
the key difference also being, the ET is flexible in the size of components/pads, partly because its a large form factor ( * ) - thats really not going to be the case with the loom (just due to physical size)
put another way…
if you had both a Linnstrument and a Loom, you’d probably feel a lot of ‘overlap’ in what you’d use them for.
if you had both an ET (mk1 or 2) and a Loom, you could, likely find different uses ( ** ) for them both.
the Loom strengths tackle the ET ‘weaknesses’ and vice versa.
its a bit like Loom + Osmose, would be a good fit, because the Loom has continuous pitch, and a more conventional Y - but the Osmose is an lovely playing experience and fantastic sound engine (which could be used by Loom)
but yeah… we’ll have to see how both ET2 and Loom fair - both look great, and attractive prices too.
so both a gamble, unlike the Linnstrument which is a known quantity and quality.
apologies to @Prehm … I’ve likely just made the waters muddier than they were they posted 
( * ) I will say, having had the ET for a long time, it’s a easy to forget how great its form factor is…
its a really good sized continuous surface… when I got it , I was like ‘wow’ - this gives it a tremendous amount of utility. if the ET 2 (usable) resolution is even a bit better than the mk1, this’ll hugely increase its utility (imho) esp due to cv!
( ** ) ofc, the crunch of this, is you might not need/want these alternative use-cases
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You make very good points!
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thank you all for your responses and no worries, the waters were pretty muddy to begin with 
your descriptions confirm my suspicion that the linnstrument is better suited for what i’m looking for. nevertheless, i think i’ll give the kickstarter campaign a shot. if erae mk1 is a solid product overall and the developer seems trustworthy, there is a decent chance that the claims about improved resolution and sensibility show to be true and that mk2 could serve my needs. I can then still decide which controller to sell when i can test them side by side.
I’m also pretty excited to give erae mk2 a test run at superbooth and will happily share my experience with it here if people are interested.
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It’s a safe assumption that people are interested.
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Right… it’s a forum for mpe controllers after all 
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