How many are using Bitwig?
it has a pretty good MPE implementation, with many of their built in instruments supporting it… so its a good choice.
why am I bring Bitwig up now?
because I ‘dusted’ it off after getting an ES-8 for eurorack, and wondered if/how Bitwig would shape up for expressive output.
(note: im only after 1 voice, but I want pitch, timbre, pressure)
so initially it looked like expression would not work, as the main CV instrument only allows you to select pitch and gate outputs
BUT the new grid stuff in 3.0 is fantastic… it completely solves the problem,
basically just create your own poly grid instrument, and you can get to pitch/gate/pressure/timbre and direct to CV outputs - yeh!
ok, this approach is not quite the best though, as if you take pitch out, you miss all the pitch calibration options of the CV instrument… so the best solution, is to use the CV instrument for pitch/gate and then use ‘the grid’ for timbre/pressure only.
overall, I have to say the grid is fantastic, is probably the most enjoyable modular environment ive used (most of them ) … just because they have really ‘nailed’ intelligent patching - makes you realise how tedious connecting cables up is in a traditional virtual modular
Bitwig’s rep at NAMM this year told me that the Grid was self contained, that Grid output was strictly audio, and that it wouldn’t be usable as a modulation source elsewhere in Bitwig. So I kinda wrote that off as “maybe they’ll make this useful next time.”
what you can’t (as of beta 8) do, is create notes/cc outputs…
i.e. its viewed an audio device or fx device, you cannot create a ‘note fx’
edit: hmm. might be the modulator out, can only be used internally within the grid.
this sound similar to note-fx…
they will ultimately no doubt create a note-fx grid, and modulator grid (in a similar way to how we have FX grid and poly grid)
the Grid is part of 3.0 which is in Beta (available to those with a current bitwig license)
they’ve just announced it will be released in August before summer break.
I don’t know how the 8-track version is dealt with… does it get regular updates?
perhaps if they update it to v3, then it will be available.
I’m very glad the Grid allows for proper MPE poly expression and MPE->CV out! I’ve been migrating to VCV Rack more for this sort of thing, as it’s generally pretty easy (though still not painless) to set up with MPE. But between the Grid being poly-expressive by default and Bitwig being better about MPE control of Eurorack, it’s a good time to explore again.
Bitwig 3.0 final is out now. Modular “sub grids” apparently didn’t make it, so currently modules can’t be grouped. But otherwise great! E.g. a neat detail: Different than in most other synths the smoothing for MIDI data (like poly aftertouch) can be switched on and off. So high data rate MIDI modulation should be possible (if the instrument can provide it).
I’ve heard on the Bitwig (Polarity) Discord that Bitwig is planning midi (including MPE) output from the Grid in the future. I see this as an amazing possibility. You put your MPE into the grid, where you can do all nature of complex modulator smoothing, routing, slicing and dicing, and then you can output MPE to other instruments. I certainly hope this comes to pass, but I worry that MIDI is going to be a big problem for this. There are so many great MIDI processing pieces within existing instruments (Kontakt) to name one that have never grown to allow MIDI output. MAX is an option (controller-> MAX -> loopback -> instrument) but good lord is MAX hard to work with in this way, and something integrated in the environment as well as Bitwig Grid is would be far superior.
While the Grid is great, I wish they would have unlocked the full instrument building capabilities that seem to be burried in Bitwig (and used to build their internal instruments). Perhaps it’s still happening - fingers crossed!
i think their stuff is built on a lower level system, which they showed in very early versions of bitwig.
but they decided, was too difficult for end-users to use, and for them to support.
so ‘the grid’ was kind of a change of plan, an alternative to their original direction of giving access to the internal dev system.
honestly, it’s probably not a bad thing… the grid is really immediate, and the intelligent patching system is great - and is probably what the majority of users want/need.
(its also really well integrated into the rest of the daw)
will they give us access to something low level enough to create instruments?
possibly, possibly not…
if they do, i wouldn’t be surprised if they take the approach used by, Max with gen~, and NI Reaktor with Core… where you do the main patch in one environment… and then ‘in a box’ you code lower level stuff.
the advantage of this approach is the majority of end-user can use the high level stuff, with blissful ignorance of the low level dsp stuff that ‘developers’ can use.
but who knows… it took a long time to get ‘the grid’, so id not hold my breath
but the grid is cool for what it is,
i think its easer to use that something like max for live, and probably a bit more efficient… but its not quite as powerful/open.
(for example in M4L, you have access to the DAW model, so you can do things like mute other tracks, or change a tracks input source)
yepp, making simple things easy and more specialized things possible would be the optimum!
Perhaps it’s just ease of mind to invest time into a system where there won’t be that one crucial component missing - it can simply be built from scratch. That said, the Grid looks extremely streamlined! The existing stuff is more “bread and butter” VA subtractive modules though on first sight. But I didn’t dig too deep yet, will have to play more with that.
Edit: Was plain wrong, it can do a lot more than usual VA stuff. Audio modulation of everything with everything (apparently as long as there is no feedback path) allows FM. And here a very cool example of a violin based on PM with comb filters:
I think its one way, i.e. you can convert the Polymer (specifically!) to a polygrid…
but Ive not seen anything to say, it can then be taken back to an instrument.
(not upgraded yet so cant test this)
hopefully though this will be the next step for ‘the grid’, to allow us to create custom UIs / performance panel. this would be a really big step forward, since like polymer, it would mean you’d be able to create and share ‘proper’ instruments and fx.
… that said, its unclear if this is BWS intention, or if its going to happen any time soon - but we can hope.
(interestingly, NI Reaktor has this… which is why you can tear apart things like Monark and rebuild them)
I do really want to give bitwig another go… my main ‘issue’ with it (compared to Live) was Push2 support was not quite as i wanted it, but its definitely improving all the time (the API moving to Java helped alot!), so perhaps its good enough now
Just gave the beta a spin, looks like you are right. Once converted to polygrid we cannot convert it back yet and it isn’t possible to create similar interfaces for our own creations.
As far as I understand they already have some UI building functionality internally for ages (and build their internal plugins that way), but it’s not accessible yet to users.
So exposing this would be the logical next step. Let’s see…
At some point a VST version of polygrid (with UI functionality) would be neat, kind of a more straightforward Reactor. So it could be combined with other livehosts than Bitwig.
yeah, the build all their instruments/fx with some kind of derivation of this tech.
but we dont know how ‘accessible’ it is…
given how long it took for ‘the grid’ to become available, I think a lot of the tools they use are not considered ‘user friendly’ enough (and i guess therefore a ‘support nightmare’ if released)
I don’t think we’ll see ‘the grid’ outside of BWS, I think its pretty much Bitwig’s USP.
) … just because they have really ‘nailed’ intelligent patching - makes you realise how tedious connecting cables up is in a traditional virtual modular 
