Expressive-E Osmose

Osmose on Sonicstate…

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I wish Eagan Matrix was available as a vst plugin)

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At around 5’20” in the Sonic LAB video, they mention that they have an engineer operating the synth engine (switching presets and the like) because the controls on the left are just a mockup. It wasn’t clear to me from that whether the synth hardware was in the keyboard, but just being controlled from the laptop, or if the hardware wasn’t there, and was being emulated on the computer.

I was under impression that the synth was running on a laptop and the dsp hardware wasn’t in fact inside the prototype unit.

Anyway, I don’t think they will ever release it as a plugin)

@Anckorage Im sure can confirm details, but…

id assume they have hooked up one of the DSP boards (from a continuum?), they would have then been using a laptop to just switch/change presets - since the Osmose display/encoders are not finished yet - so cannot be done from the Osmose itself at the moment.

this is also what it looked like on @Cuckoo video… but he doesn’t need a sidekick to operate as he already knows the EagenMatrix from his Continuum :slight_smile:

I highly doubt the Eagan Matrix will even be a software solution (e.g. vst).
Haken take pride in the way its closely coupled to the control surface - so its viewed as an instrument rather than computer software. a VST would be an antithesis to that :wink:

of course, never say never - but id be disappointed if they change the principle, as I increasingly think its very valid for expressive controllers.

Yes you are right Marc: the Osmose prototype uses à triple DSP board and a Mac is connected to it with the Editor running (Guillaume, you briefly see him on Sonic State video, changes the presets from the Editor since the Osmose prototype doesn’t yet have its knob&screen ready yet).

And yes, no plan for VST !

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The early prototype I was using had the Continuum PCB hooked up externally for the time being. They were still waiting for the slightly customised PCB slated for the Osmose. The laptop was just for controlling the patches and the EaganMatrix. It came out a bit wrong in the Sonic State video.

Yeah, and also Haken himself takes pride in his sick level of usage of the SHARC chip. He told me that all the highly optimised computation that he’s doing would be pretty tough for a general purpose computer cpu to handle.

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That makes sense. I do wonder if there would be user appetite for a stand-alone version of the DSP board with MIDI for use with other controllers? I seem to recall some commentary to that effect; people considering the Continuumini for the sound engine but not the playing surface.

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ages ago… I asked Leopold about this, (as ive wanted this ever since i first saw the EagenMatrix :slight_smile: )
but he said he was reluctant as the engine/presets are very much tied to the Continuum (at that time) surface.
I think this is why this is being framed as a collaboration with Expressive-E, and many nice words from Haken on how good the engineering is behind the Osmose and how its a suitable/good match.

Perhaps though we might see more collaborations with other companies, if Haken think the product is suitable / capable - Osmose is a nice way of demonstrating that possibly to other companies.

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Much as I always wanted a standalone EaganMatrix brain, I just consider myself lucky to now have 2 options that are significantly cheaper than Continuums. And having read Hakens website section on MPE+ and their philosophy regarding of amount, timing and resolution of messages during the initial attack phase, I dont blame them for retaining a degree of exclusivity and fussiness when it comes to what expressive control surfaces they want to see it paired with. At least they including easy routing of other controllers to EaganMatrix via the editor app so they arent actively preventing me from using MPE controllers that they dont think too highly of!

I want to learn EaganMatrix while waiting for Osmose, so I went ahead and got a ContinuuMini. I have also stuck a 5mm thick nylon-surfaced neoprene sheet to a Sensel Morph, which feels quite nice, although I suspect I may have to rewrite Sensels MPE implementation as an app using their API to get round some specific technical issues with their midi output which I wont go into here.

I was able to deduce what was actually happening in the Sonic State video regarding the location of the synth DSP, but only because I’d been on this EaganMatrix learning mission for a week or so before I saw that video.

Regarding Haken saying nice things about Expressive E’s tech, there is a video on youtube from some time ago where the Expressive E Touche is used with the ContinuuMini and you can tell that Edmund Eagan (I think it was him, apologies if not) is quite impressed with the quality of the data coming from the Touche, and its feel.

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@SteveElbows - feel free to open a thread about the Morph MIDI shortcomings and your workarounds. Or write me a PM. Would be interesting to hear how you approached it.
I have started experimenting with the C++ API but am using the internal firmware configured with SenselApp now, combined with a GigPerformer pitch-bend mapping script (because I want 1.5 octaves per Morph which isn’t an option atm. with the internal firmware).

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This one :wink:

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It probably was that. This might be more directly applicable, though:

I’d like to encourage the Expressive-E people to incorporate digital audio output into the Osmose. S/PDIF would be fine, and the most compact solution. It seems a shame to have such a high quality audio engine but no digital connection. I’d be happy to pay more for it.
What do you think?
John.

That doesn’t sound very practical. It would have to have either spdif in or a bnc clock connector in addition to the spdif output. If not, it would have to always be clock master and then sync the rest of the gear, which sounds like an odd task to assign to an instrument.

I use a lot of digital signals in my studio, and they certainly have their uses. But I don’t see why it would be of use here. But perhaps I’m missing something? Why would you want it?

I hope they at least will make Osmose with balanced outputs.
Digital output is not important to me, but I know a few synthes have the opportunity.
I have the impression that people either are a big fan of digital outs or they don’t care for them…

The reason is simply to record the output with the highest quality possible. It’s a high-quality digital synth engine, so in 2020 I’d like to be able to record it digitally. I’ve been doing that with my Korg synths for 15 years. To take the signal to analog, and then back to digital for recording is redundant, and seems like a backward step.
And yes, you would need spdif in as well as out, in order to sync with external gear. But spdif connectors are not bulky.
Balanced analog outputs (even with TRS jack connections) would be a good alternative, I guess.

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Yeah, you are right. Two spdif cables as an alternative to two analog jacks wouldn’t introduce more cabling, either…

I like gear with class compliant usb audio/midi. Not for sound quality reasons, but convenience. So a different use case, I guess. I can imagine I would have appreciated the ability to record an instrument like Osmose directly to, say, Cubasis on iphone/ipad without having to use an audio interface.

Yes, I guess that USB audio along with MIDI may be another option for the team. Anything, to avoid sending the signal to analog, only to require re-conversion to digital in order to record!

Continuum has aes3 , but continuum mini does not.
So I perhaps some possibility of aes3,
But don’t think osmose spec mentioned digital outputs , so I’d assume it won’t have it.