MIDI IO - set pitch-bend range globally?

Is there a way I can set the default pitch-bend range for all presets?

I want to use an external mpe controller with the Osmose.
Ive noticed the default PB range is 96, and I want it to be 48 !

I know in C3/Midi IO, I can set X Bend Range Bend to 48, and also I can set to use MPE for Y/Z rather than MPE+

but of course, I can only get this to ‘stick’ if I save the patch as a user preset :frowning:

unfortunately, I cannot set the PBR to 96 on the Erae Touch, and even if I could, I would not want to , as higher PBR = lower resolution.

how do others get around this when using external MPE controllers with any EM based instrument.

ok, I have a ‘kind of’ workaround…

apparently you can send CC to control , p169 continuum manual…

Channel 16
x - cc 40 = 48 (48st)
y - cc 41 = 74 (cc 44, default anyway)
z - cc 42 = 127 (mpe)

I think what I might do is create a preset for my Electra One, that’ll let me control these parameters,
so I can change without having to fire up the EM Editor.
(I guess Expressive E could add this to their UI, perhaps under ext midi )

not ideal but it’ll work.
in fairness… the main reason Im using my Erae Touch, is for when Im using the EM editor for sound design … and for that I don’t need much more then hit a note, and here x/y/z actions.
so it does really matter…

Im assuming the above (cc’s) will work for both input and output, so kind of useful if/when you want to use the output midi for other MPE synths (given they are likely to default to the above)

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I tried to dig on my notes, but could not find a conclusive answer ;-(
There are a ton of CC you can send for configuration (even some pretty obscure and undocumented :wink:

Just look at what MIDI DATA is exchanged when you switch presets…

Edit: good reasons to have other “friends” around to assist as you mention, sound design or play /perform. Axoloti might be a good candidate also…

Edit/add2: Organelle…pd…

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To set bend parameters globally, and not have them change when changing presets, in Midi and Global Settings, change Midi Encoding to Preserve.

You can set all the preserve options by sending ch16, cc 55. Bit masks for the options are:

mask option
0x01 Transmit updates over midi when config changes. Use this to see the control codes sent when changing things with the on-board controls, without running the editor.
0x02 Preserve Midi encoding (bend, Y cc, Z cc, routing )
0x04 Preserve Pedal settings
0x08 Preserve Surface processing (round, split, mono…)

Related codes:

midi scope notes
ch16 cc40 Bend sets pitch bend range, in semitones.
ch16 cc41 Y 0 = no Y, 127 sets default Y cc with no shelving, otherwise cc sent for Y
ch16 cc42 Z 0 = no Z, 11 = default Z cc, 69 = use channel pressure, 70 = MPE+, 127 = MPE

You’re correct that the midi is the same going to and from the editor and the device. A preset file is simply a recording of the changes made to an empty preset to get to the result, saved in a standard MIDI type 1 format file.

thank you , this is cool… and totally missed it.

however, this does not appear to be working correctly :frowning:

if I set to preserve,
indeed, X Bend Range is preserved :white_check_mark:

however, if Ive set Y/Z to MPE , as soon as I switch presets, they turn to OFF
(so don’t retain the mpe value)

also this appears to not be stored permanently on the instrument.
(power cycle Osmose, and it returns back to replace)
so, it appears to be more an editor function, than something done on EM.

so that means, back to using an external controller to set these values up.

anyway ,still useful to know, esp when using the editor.

The pitch settings are preserved on the Continuum and Eagan Matrix module. It may be the Osmose’s onboard settings that are canceling that. Not sure-no Osmose yet.

which pitch settings are you talking about? Im not talking about pitch…

the issue I found is, when I do preserve midi settings…

whilst, X Pitch Bend Range is correctly being retained if marked as retained.
its the fact that Y & Z control get set to None, when I use this preserve option.

whats a bit odd, is Im pretty sure when I tried this (nearly) a month ago, I dont think this was the case…
… so perhaps Osmose OS is doing something.

its kind of odd though… as the Osmose doesnt have any onboard menu settings that affect these parameters… so not sure why it would touch them, and it does seem to respect the patch settings (when its NOT set to preserver), rather than override.
so more testing needed…

I think we need to test these things before jumping to conclusion…

all that said, I think perhaps mid term, the Osmose should allow us to override these from the menu, as its a pretty useful thing to do.
though, perhaps the solution is to start accepting MPE on Port 1, and have that setup/configurable for external controllers, whilst leaving Port 2 for MPE+/Raw data.
(i.e. this would create consistency with what EE are doing for output with port 1 and 2)

Sorry. I thought you said the 48 step setting wasn’t being preserved through power cycles on the Osmose, and I was stating that it does on the other EM instruments.

no, oddly, that setting is the one that does ‘preserve’, its the Y/Z that gets screwed up.

however, I will say, that Im not sure preserve midi io is a good thing to get in the habit of using,
it also appears to include how velocity is handled, and I can imagine, that is something you want per preset.

anyway, if we go back to my original use-case.
I think ‘mid-term’, Id probably customise a patch when using it with a different controller (due to different feel) - so whilst a ‘pain’ when browsing presets, its really an issue.
(my plan is to use different user banks for different controllers - osmose, eigenharp, erea touch)

The preserve setting on other EM instruments also keeps the foot pedal assignments and I think the pressure to velocity conversion settings. I would guess the Osmose outputs velocity directly, but I don’t know yet. The Continuum AFAIK only interpolates velocity from pressure.

pedal are separate , as are ‘surface processing’
Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 13.35.30

anyway, we will see…
Im now reasonable clear on how the Osmose interfaces with the DSP engine, but there are still some corner cases, that are not so clear.
I think as a community we will work these out over time… (well those of us that are interested :wink: )

however, Id not fret about it too much, as I also think, this is an area we may well see some changes in over the coming months, as EE work on the Osmose OS.
partly because there are some issues/confusions in the Ext Midi “mode” that need improving.

that said, in short term, I think the Osmose OS updates will focus on ensuring everything is stable, and that users can get the Osmose to operate as its intended… so doubt we’ll see any major changes for a while… but you never know.

I forgot those preserve layers were on separate switches. I rarely use my Continuum as a controller for other instruments. I tend to use a Seaboard Rise for that. The Roli Dashboard app makes it easy to have setups for different synths & softsynths. The EM probably would benefit from having similar controller presets. As Haken is porting the EM away from Max, hopefully some new features will be added.

yeah, as I said, I suspect EE will do some improvements on “Ext Midi” to handle all of this.

I don’t think that is confirmed , is it? is there a statement this is happening, on a roadmap?

@Anckorage , Ive seen this being stated in multiple places,
to the point many new Osmose users are taking this as it’s ‘on the roadmap’.
Can you confirm this?

Have Haken Audio committed to any kind of port/re-write of an Editor?
or is it just an idea being thrown around as a possibility? or not?

I think, if its not being planned, then some kind of expectation management might be necessary :slight_smile:

I can confirm that there is something going on … how ever there is no deadline… and we only release things when we are ready (and if it ends up in something we don’t like, we trash it :wink: ) ! So just see this as something possible at that point.

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did you try to set “Surface Processing” to “Preserve” in Midi Global & Settings panel ?

It’s the same… looks like some LOOP, internal? (MIDI is feed back)? I can do a video to show it.

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yeah, @Anckorage midi preserve, and then tried surface preserve as well…
(don’t think I tried, surface on its own)

which parameters are for surface, and which for midi?
(my main issue was that y/z would be set to none, as soon as I switch preset, when preserve was active)

in other news…
wow, just connected my Alpha , tears of joys, . its absolutely beautiful…
(as, Im sure @keymanpal will likely remember the first time he connected it to his Continuum)
whats truly amazing, is because the feel/reaction is so different to the Osmose, the same patch is sometimes barely recognisable when between the two surfaces!

… something we all kind of know this, and for sure its one of the strengths of the EM, but just hits me every time.

… thoughts and ideas, are now raging in my head :slight_smile:

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Now wondering why I have not tried this…, yeah ok, so the answer is the usual one, time.