I’ve been working on a project in the background for a eurorack module…
like its bigger brother/sister… (percussa ssp), its a pretty powerful digital module.
Ive already created quite a few modules for it (as well as this ‘host’), and Im wondering, should I push it down the MPE route?
combine two passions of mine… modular and expressive playing.
but is there really a demand for this?
basically the way I see this is, it being a full MPE poly synth, with a stereo output.
and the (8) cv inputs would be used for modulation etc.
(the 8 inputs can also be audio… so there’d be a possibility of some kind of mpe audio fx… but you do have an issue with matching touches vs input… but its is kind of fun to play with)
Nice, I think this is an interesting development as one of the things that put me off the SSP was the size and price. So a smaller and cheaper version makes a lot of sense. Is it possible to patch on a computer, where you’d have the advantage of a larger screen, and then loading the patch on the XMX via the SD card or USB?
The virtual modular in a module is becoming an interesting space with both this and the 4MS meta module. It seems like it’s going to make small case systems much more flexible.
MPE on the modular, well I suspect there’s some demand, but likely somewhat niche at this point.
polyphony is still pretty uncommon in eurorack, sure we have a chord modules (e.g. Sinphonia) and full voices (e.g. Oxi Coral) , but they are the exception.
I think one of the reasons is… what do they actually add?
sure, on one hand, having full voices in your rack, means potentially not having to bring a laptop or another hardware synth along… but is that it?
I rather think of modular as building something unique… something you can’t do in traditional synths, rather than as ‘convenience’.
this is perhaps why Ive always wondered about the Eagan Matrix Module…
what can you do with it that you cannot do by just using a continuum/osmose?
so yeah, I want to think beyond just a simple mpe synth in a rack… really, thats not that interesting to me.
in that vain, I think the strengths of modular are:
modulation
combining various modules in unexpected ways.
so I thinking, how to use the 8 cv inputs for modulation in interesting ways that complement mpe.
or using the inputs potentialy as audio, so kind of mpe fx…
so mpe becomes a polyphonic control over these audio sources.
(say somthing like the way a vocoder uses keyboard input for different voices)
MPE will be a niche thing for sure, and its unclear to me to what extent even the much broader, non-MPE specific world of polyphonic synths within eurorack has caught on. Various people have pushed offerings in that direction in recent years, but its hard to get a sense of uptake, most eurorack performances I see are of the more traditional variety so far.
But if I combine your MPE question with the idea that a lot of eurorack stuff is sequencer based, this leads me to an area I have long been interested in: sequencers that make use of MPE. I dont think many people have dabbled in this area so far, so its hard to judge the potential. If I look at the best known example for computers that does exist, SeqMPEror ( https://seqmperor.com ), I’ve never seen signs that it gained momentum or met the response the developer was hoping for, but again I dont really have a foolproof way to judge that. But I might hazard a guess that people havent really been shown examples of why the use of MPE within sequencers could be compelling. Something inspiring is required to capture the imagination of a larger pool of people perhaps. Whether that requires a new twist, or whether it is even possible, whether the ‘value’ is really there potentially in these sorts of ideas, is unknown to me.
True, but there is some evidence of a trend for more polyphony, in the examples you’ve cited, and also in the ART concept that Tiptop Audio are working on. Also look at the number of “quad” VCA/VCO modules that even Doepfer are producing.
Well for one thing, it provides a great sound engine for those that have other sources of input
In terms of MPE in a rack, then I think you’re right, it’s about modulation, and perhaps the ability to combine the human-controller input with other types of inputs to produce interesting or less predictable sounds.
By the way, the lengthy announcement blurb released about this module already got translated down to a simpler spec list that includes ‘MPE support’ in some media reports, eg:
What initially sold me on SSP was its MPE support, and the idea of having arbitrary modulation sources vary the nature of the sound I’m controlling.
I still think that model makes sense, but I’m spoiled by VCV’s polyphonic workflows. My eurorack setup doesn’t even produce audio anymore; it just generates CV for use in the computer.
Likewise, what sets EMM apart from Osmose and Continuumini is the CV inputs. Part of me covets that.
…but there’s also nothing stopping me from taking those CVS I’ve brought into the computer and sending them out again as MIDI, to control those same parameters on Osmose or Continuumini.
I just hadn’t thought to try it until typing all this.
a couple of reviews around, but I dont think many end-users have got their units yet… though many expecting today/tomorrow.
I pre-ordered from Schneidersladen, and apparently Im #1 on the list, but not heard anything
that may not be a bad thing, as I am getting a bit ‘cold feet’, partly concerned over workflow - but also overlaps with SSP and XMX too.
that said, from a dev perspective Im quite interested in it.
I have been diving a bit more into it…
MPE, so (currently) the midi has to be setup via vcvrack desktop and thier is no poly-cable support in metamodule.
but I think it will be possible kind of brute force an MPE synth on metamodule IF you limit channels on your controller.
(I get the feeling 4 voice polyphony is reasonable expectation depending on modules used etc)
meta-morph , running on MM is pretty much a no-go
basically the IO is done on the M4 cpu - which then communicates with the DSP (aka vcv) running on the A7
that would mean writing custom firmware for the M4 to support the Eigenharp, and, frankly, its quite possible the M4 is not really powerful enough to implement the USB protocol used there esp. without degradation of performance.
it could also be a huge undertaking, as its possible/likely the firmware stack does not include Isochronous usb support as it doesn’t need it.
(e.g. its not running as a usb audio interface)
a shame… but means best approach is to use another eurorack module (or something else) to talk to the Eigenharp, then get it to spit out cv or midi
there may also be another way, that could be interesting.
4ms are talking about i2c support.
this could be interesting…
why?
well in other news
a while back, I was investigating i2c with the SSP , even bought all the electronic components necessary to implement it.
but, I got cold feet … basically plugging my diy electronics into a $2k modules was a step way too far for my comfort levels.
(even if I was pretty confident… things could go wrong)
however, XMX changes all that…
the price is much less scary, and also I actually have 2 units (for dev ;))
so, Im keen to explore this side !
(if it works, then I can transfer confidently to SSP!)
I need usb support and i2c support on it… but thats not a big issue, I can ask Bert, also I have access to buildroot configs etc.
this opens up possibilities
so eigenharp connectivity , allowing output to
Synthor/Trax plugins directly
midi (usb)
cv
i2c
why i2c?
midi not really a fan, Id like to keep resolution and SR processing.
processing load will probably limit complexity of patch if also running the eigenharp connectivity on the xmx (ssp will be fine)
cv is fine, but xmx only has 2 outputs, and ssp 4… so they are always in short supply.
but i2c… its fast and could yield many channels.
(it will need a vcv module as well as something on the ssp/xmx)
definitely some ideas for a winter project…
(its still really warm here - so sitting at a computer for long periods is a bit uncomfortable)
possible, but its quite hard work implementing a low level usb protocol on a ‘bare board’ - you’d have to look into the how it supports isosyncronous usb protocol… e.g. is there support in Chibios? then from there I have to port the code to use that support.
the advantage of things like Bela/XMX etc is they are linux, so I can use libusb to interface to the userspace driver.
(in fairness, thats just saying … Ive already done it on linux , so its easier - lol )
teletype is ‘problematic’ as its an i2c master like xmx/ssp - and afaik, none of these can be changed to i2c slaves. (I did look previously)
now… ssp ( * ) supports multi master mode, but that would require teletype to support as well, which I don’t think it does, certainly not in current firmware.
and, frankly, this gets complicated too.
( * ) not checked xmx yet for multi master support, but its probably there.
so yeah, Im not that interested in teletype.
there other monome modules are slaves, so they could work.
but I dont own any monome modules so its not an area id really be that interested in supporting myself… I also dont like writing code for stuff I cannot test!
this highlights an issue with i2c, outside of very simple modules (e.g. sliders), its not a generic protocol, you have to build support for the ‘target’ module.
so your user-base is an intersection of source and target module, which you can imagine gets v. small fast.
anyway, thats the nature of i2c… never was designed for this kind of use-case, so has some pretty severe limitations.
all that said, ofc, if I decide to support other modules over i2c, I can always use open source projects to look at the their support, if I need clarification over the protocol… so id go checkout GitHub for that.
anyways… back to MPE and MetaModule.
Schneidersladen have received stock, so Im hoping they will send mine out of Monday.
whilst, I dont think MM will be that useful with MPE out of the box.
it does look like 4ms see MM as something they want to invest/build on.
so it could have an interesting future.
also, they stated all the code will be open sourced, so that will open up new avenues too.
but for sure… early days.
