Osmose + Erae Touch combo

Erae Touch
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k, I know a few of us now have this fun combo…

how many have tried this?

I thought id share a couple of observations, partly to collect together…

a) set up
on osmose, M → global setting → midi io → din mode 2/dsp in

b) pitch bend range

max PBR on ET is 48, but you’ll find most/all Osmose presets are defaulting to 96.
so you’ll need to change this in the Haken Editor - click on C3, change X Bend Range to 48
you can do this via a CC, see Haken Continuum manual.

so you can either save the preset, or you could something that’ll do this via CC.

bug/issue
there’s settings to ‘preserve’ these midi settings (in midi io in editor) , but I found these to not work properly… e.g. they turn MPE off when you switch presets :laughing:

c) Erae Touch power on disables Osmose Midi IN. (BUG)
this is ET TRS midi → adapter → Osmose DIN IN

you need to have the midi disconnected whilst you power on the ET.

(more details below to not clog up the above summary)

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more details on ET power on issue:

so this issue is ifyou have Osmose powered on… and with DIN connected to it from ET.
THEN you power on Erae Touch then it will not work !

though the Osmose keyboard will still work, so thats ok.
(doing things like changing presets won’t help, you need to power cycle the Osmose!)

if we look in the Haken Editor (with surface display = on) , we can see the Osmose believes its not getting any midi data in.
so what I do is disconnect the TRS jack whilst powering up the ET, then connect it once its up n’ running.
then everything is ok.

Id assume the ET is sending some midi data during startup to the Osmose that puts it in some ‘odd state’. Ive looked thru everything in the HE, and I ‘re-enabled’ midi input etc, just in case, also I ‘re-enabled’ the din mode (see (a)) , but nothing helps.

next steps:

a) could others try this to ‘verify’, perhaps they can see more details…

b) could someone try this on a Continuum (looks at @keymanpal :laughing: )

it be interesting to know if this is an Osmose specific issue… or if the ET is doing something to the DSP.
given the lack of ‘surface display’, I suspect its on the Osmose OS.

there are a couple of other tests I need to try…

i) check USB
I cannot remember if I tried this before… but basically I can set up my mioXM to do
ET (usb) → mioXM → Osmose (usb)
I suspect the issue will be the same…but it might have just disabled din!

ii) is DIN and USB disabled on Osmose
basically, check that it really is the Osmose, and not the ET.
so can I send midi from a daw in this ‘disabled’ state, again over din and usb,

iii) midi data dump
really just grab the midi that the ET sends on power on, and try to figure out which is the ‘offending message’.
this would enable us to talk to both Embodme and EE to determine a solution.
and also possibly workaround, by filtering it out.

again, just to emphasise its not a big issue…
you can workaround, by simply unplugging the midi cable before you power on the Erae Touch.

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ok, power on issue - interesting findings :slight_smile:

tl;dr; I think its a corrupt midi stream.
when using a direct DIN connection.

above tests:

is DIN and USB disabled on Osmose?
Yes/No
DIN is not working, even when used from above hardware device.
USB however is working still.
so its just disabling the DIN.

this one was interesting…
so I tried all combinations going via the mioXM.
ET (usb) → mioXM → Osmose (usb)
ET (din) → mioXM → Osmose (usb)
ET (usb) → mioXM → Osmose (din)

all worked…

of course, I then noticed that Ive got sysex filtering turned on in the mioXM - doh.

so I turned off sysex filtering, so nothing is being filtered
and… drum roll…
again tried…
ET (din) → mioXM → Osmose (din)

it still worked !

SO where are we , well, essentially the mioXM is just doing a pass thru on DIN now.
and it works fine, whereas a direct connection does not.

I have had similar experience before where the mioXM fixes things… even when acting as a pass-thru.

I believe the reason is, the mioXM is a ‘soft thru’ , it is interpreting every midi message and then re-broadcasting it. (it has to , as it can filter, go to multiple targets etc)

Ive noticed, before the stream is NOT identical to the stream out… ( * ) and this cleaned up stream seems to be more compatible, which could be the reason.
the other reason, is perhaps, the mioXM is a bit better at things like flow control… perhaps the ET is overflowing the input midi buffer on the Osmose, but the mioXM prevents this.

obviously it provides a solution for me (go via mio xm !), but it makes it difficult for me to track down the exact issue… and to know if its an ET/Osmose/Haken Engine issue.

ok, now to reassemble my setup… put cables back where they should go!
testing is such a mess!

( * ) there is a notion of ‘running’ (?) messages in midi, which allows you to reduce the amount of data transmitted in the case to sending the same CC consecutively … it was used extensive for midi din, with its limited bandwidth, but does not buy you anything over USB (USB MIDI uses fixed 4 byte packets)
what Ive noticed in the past is the mioXM will convert these running message into ‘standard’ 2 byte packets… this can help with some devices that don’t support this running message.

so it could be this the source of the issue during startup.

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yeah, I also have it running thru mioXM… BUT, I remember reports of users saying ET is “messing” this or that keyboard/sound module, now I can’t remember exactly nor with what firmware ;-(

I’ll try with Continuum directly (so no mioXM in between)

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yes, and Running Status works also for notes. Receiving device is supposed to remember last Status byte received, and if the transmitter sends multiple data with same status and use Running Status by omitting the repeated status bytes, receiving device is supposed to remember this last memorized status and use it on the fly. This could cause problems in some vintage units, don’t know if it’s still a thing

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yeah, I just need to decide on setup a bit, Ive got a few too many USB MIDI devices now… (4 max on mioXM),
so need to decide what to route via usb, which din, and which go directly to Mac.
decisions :slight_smile:

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4 max physical usb - you can add a hub and then mio can handle 10 device no?

edit: yep its 8 actually :wink:

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yeah, I know what running status is :wink:
my point is, its just, that I know mioXM strips them (well replaces with full message) , as do many hardware sequencers.

the reason is, running status is a stateful connection.
but routers/sequencers can be sending out messages that come from multiple sources…
so this would screw the state…(without a lot of complex logic, which they don’t bother with)
… so basically they accept running status for input, but output without.

(they make an explicit exception for sysex… IF they support sysex!)

and no, USB MIDI does not make use of running status, the usb protocol sends all midi messages as 4 byte packets… so the running message present no advantage.
(USB MIDI protocol even breaks up sysex into multiple 4 byte packets)
yes, this is ‘wasteful’ compared to din, but the bandwidth is so much higher, it doesn’t matter :wink:

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you are right … its actually the USB Host reservation thats the issue. that has a max of 8 devices.
(and a max of 12 ports for mio-> daw)

that would be fine except, many usb devices have multiple usb ports
so I have
Osmose 2 ports
Erae Touch - 2 ports
Electra one - 3 ports !
so yeah, 7 ports for 3 devices :laughing:
… so Hapax + Hermod = 9

honestly, I think this is gonna get worst over time, MPE is going to push this ‘multiple port’ idea

this issue is, you tend to need them all… since often, like the Osmose, they have different purposes.
(Electra One is like the Osmose, one of them is used for a computer editor)

but as I say, for sure, I don’t neem them all, all the time… so its a matter of deciding what the best setup is to minimise me taking connections in/out all the time. first world problems :wink:

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You could create a rack of mios, merging all client ports to one and sending that to the host port of the next mio etc. Infinite ports for infinite moneys! :slight_smile: (And infinite latency for the last ports probably…)
And you could probably still only play one controller at a time with 16 midi channels. But there is also the two hand limit :slight_smile:

Perhaps you could create a holder with labels for all the USB cables coming from client devices and the Mio in reach? Then a few seconds of un/plugging these would switch from one to the other?

Playing around with ET to Osmose (or even more lightweight, the ContinuuMini) is on the TODO list :slight_smile:

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As I said , first world problems :slight_smile:

It’s also got 4 din pairs, and I have a blokas midihub , which for 1 usb , will give me 4 more din pairs.

Osmose, Hapax , Hermod, Electra also have multiple midi outputs, and also routing

So it’s very possible , and whilst I might fret over usb vs din, frankly a lot of the time it’s doesn’t matter.

So is a bit of prevarication … partly because it’s a bit of a faff cabling, then configuring everything.
But once done, it usually serves me for quite a while ( 6 months +)

Though more in topic …
Actually the main thing changing, is the concept of having MPE being routed around in hardware.

In the past I’ve tended to just ad-hoc connect mpe into synths , because eigenharp/soundplane went into the computer…. and I was mainly using a vsts.

But now having both the Erae and Osmose as computer-less , the balance has shifted a bit.

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As more and more systems have just USB-MIDI, I wish there were a small box with just two host ports (and a power plug), forwarding midi data between these two, so one could connect two clients. MioXM is nice but a little heavy/large/expensive just for that. BomeBox comes close, but with only one host port this needs at least an additional usb hub, so yet another box…
(Well, a Raspberry Pi can be configured accordingly…)

The easiest solution would of course be if developers of hardware devices with a synth engine would provide a host port to connect a client (and if it’s additionally a controller itself an additional client port to connect to an external synth).
Then one would only need a single cable. But that is wishful thinking :slight_smile:

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ah sorry, no lecturing intention, I understood you were not sure…

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@philippe , no worries :slight_smile:

@NothanUmber , there are quite a lot of options these days…
mioXL has more ports,
the MRCC looks quite interesting (conductive labs) , but still has 4 physical usb ports (not sure it if supports usb hubs)

there is really no reason the mioXM could not support more virtual ports. presumably the mioXL does.

that said, I do have a small issue now that some things are a bit far away from the mioXM… so I need a longer cable, but I guess if I could pick up a check mioXM (used?) , I could have 2 ‘access points’, and then interconnect them.

anyway lots of options.
but MPE using an entire ‘midi port’ with all 16 channels does complicate the mess a bit.

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Re running status: this is standard in the MIDI file format, and it is used in the EaganMatrix preset midi files. Thanks for the info on USB – I was wondering how running status affects the message stream in that scenario.